2008年6月1日

translation contest

what sharon stone said:

"Well you know it was very interesting because at first, you know, I am not happy about the ways the Chinese were treating the Tibetans because I don't think anyone should be unkind to anyone else. And so I have been very concerned about how to think and what to do about that because I don't like that. And I had been this, you know, concerned about, oh how should we deal with the Olympics because they are not being nice to the Dalai Lama, who is a good friend of mine.

And all these earthquake and stuff happened and I thought: Is that karma, when you are not nice that bad things happen to you? And then I got a letter, from the Tibetan Foundation that they want to go and be helpful. And that made me cry. And they ask me if I would write a quote about that and I said,"I would."And it was a big lesson to me, that some times you have to learn to put your head down and be of service even to people who are not nice to you. And that's a big lesson for me..."

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for those who don't read English or haven't seen this original context of what she said, have no right to criticize her.

but of course, for those who have read and understood the passage above can say anything about her.
_____________________________________________________________

my view?

i think part of what she said was unwise and unnecessary.

5/30

_____________________________________________________________

updated on 6/1

thanks to those who have spent their time leaving comments here.

at first, i hesitated to publish this post because as you all could tell, i would easily become the center of attack by the fierce 憤青. but surprisingly, it didn't turn out that badly, at least until now.

When I read part of what she said on a local newspaper which translated "karma" as "報應"(
deserved fate), I was shocked because i believed Sharon Stone, who has been a celebrity for more than fifteen years should be smart and experienced enough to know what is considered appropriate to say in public. She has always been the outspoken female actress in Hollywood; but outspoken doesn't mean stupid. so then i went to youtube for her original clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYoZEn9vlzE)

After watching the clip, I thought what she said was mostly 1) unwise: there was no need to state that China was being un-nice to Tibetans; 2) unnecessary: there was no need to link up tibet and the olympics with the earthquake.

I watched the clip again to figure out what exactly was the message she wanted to convey after all. My guess was that she decided to tell people her "evil" thought, her irrational rationale due to her close relationship with Dalai Lama. But after getting the letter from the Tibetan Foundation, she realized she was very wrong to think of it as a Karma at first; therefore she regretted and cried.

This is just my guess. You can agree on it. You can disagree on it.

But the way her story was told was just wrong. She exposed too much on her evilness too honestly, which shifted all attention to her wrong thought rather than her realization.

I belittled her at her coldblooded first thought. Well, but what next? Sharon Stone is just Sharon Stone. What she said doesn't affect how i live. so just let it go!

But then local press began to interview Chinese celebrities on their views. Certainly, every one has the freedom of speech; I respect that. But i honestly wonder how many of the interviewed celebrities have made an effort to find out the true story, the whole story before they said a word about her. Not only newspapers carelessly translate "karma" into “報應”, Cable TV also made inaccurate translations on her whole speech, and TVB deliberately cut off her speech after she said the word "Karma" (they missed out the whole story basically...)


If Chinese celebrities demand Hollywood actress to think before she speaks, then I demand (certainly I have no right to demand, so i "Wish") Hong Kong artists to learn the truth before they comment (or criticize.)

That's all I want to say.
_____________________________________________________________

伸延閱讀:

做人不要太 CEN



48 則留言:

匿名 說...

袁小姐, 今日開始真係要對你'另眼相看' !
唔好話我知 ....閣下言下之意,是要暗示對那 '老婦'作出批評的, 都是盲毛之流吧.

屍屍

匿名 說...

Erica,

Like to say at sorry at first,that is,I want to give some different opinions to this issue.

For Sharon's view,

...I am not happy about the ways the Chinese were treating the Tibetans because I don't think anyone should be unkind to anyone else...

I strongly agree one should be kind to anyone else.A question will be raised,however,how the Public at Large in Tibet had been treated by the Tibetian Central Government,before 1953?

P.S.Chairman Mao claimed no rights of speech as no invesigation(observation) had been made.

Daniel.

阪本龍一 說...

彌明:


其實Sharon Stone談到佛教與因果循環的關係時,不適當引用Karma這個容易引起誤會的單字。Karma意思包含「善業,惡業,業障,因果循環」的意思,但華文媒體卻把這個英文單詞譯為「報應」,才會引起軒然大波。


阪本龍一

匿名 說...

Well after watching the video, reading the original text, I still want to critize her. Regardless of what her opinions are, she shouldn't say that in public. Does she ever have any respect to the Chinese people? It seems like she discriminates everyone in China. I bet she doesn't even know where Tibet is !!! Right now, the most important thing to do is to assist the people in China. Tibet is not a priority right now. xxx Christina xxx

阪本龍一 說...

其實Sharon Stone談到佛教與因果循環的關係時,不適當引用Karma這個容易引起誤會的單字。Karma意思包含「善業,惡業,業障,因果循環」的意思,但華文媒體卻把這個英文單詞譯為「報應」,才會引起軒然大波。


假如她使用Fate/命運或Tragedy/悲劇的詞彙,華人社會會否較會接受她的說話內容???


阪本龍一

篤篤篤撐 說...

她的談話, 似乎重點在於最後一段, 佢係話原來自己覺得karma係無知....

加怪點解海內外媒體selective 報導 ?

btw, 講1953前後, 以說明中共解放西藏就是合理, 這是一種達爾文式的社會文化進化論----共產中國解放了落後的西藏農奴社會。如果呢種logic成立, 布殊打伊拉克都好合理, 任何自視文化發展階段優於社會主義初階既國家, 都可以打中國了....

所有以"共產中國解放了落後的西藏農奴社會"仍為中國對西藏擁有道德合理性的人, 共實logic上係一種賣國

Josekin 說...

Agreed... I don't think she understood the meaning of karma for one. The way she used it was like the Chinese people might have deserved the earthquake. I can understand the anger.

If I said karma to 911, what would happen? Same.

匿名 說...

讀過佛學的人會知道她說的話是有"悟性"的意思,她只是從自己的角度去道出自己的"悟性",並沒惡意之言詞,慈悲為懷,善哉善哉
我反而覺得她很有智慧:)

陳大文 部落 說...

我個人認為, sharon stone 是不應該把四川地震,和西藏問題,以及 達賴喇嘛三方面扯成關系的


地震是天災,而西藏問題是中國內政問題,至於達賴喇嘛 是否( who is a good friend of mine ),是另一事情,和地震、以至中共政治取態,基本上是不應該成為互動關系,也不應說成好像有必然關系。


[阪本龍一] 說的對,華文媒體的譯稿是有問題。情況就像是上次 CNN 主播的事件類似,人家是說【中國 / 中國本體】,而不是說【你們這些中國人 / 華人們】。

Sun Bin 說...

the point is, those who suffered in th equake were tibetan, qiang and innocent han people.
they had never been 'unnice' to her friends.

prc government <> chinese.

the 'basic instinct' failed to realize this.

i guess propaganda does work, enough apple daily 'brainwashing' could blind one's eyes as much as people's daily did :)

匿名 說...

阪本龍一

「善業,惡業,業障,因果循環」...所以sharon stone所暗示的是有西藏的因,才有四川地震的果,她想的,不是報應還是甚麼?
不過我認為,也不用為她說的而感到憤怒,因為我都相信因果,她說過做過的因,終有一天也會有果。

Mia 說...

1) "I am not happy about the ways the Chinese were treating the Tibetans "

Dumb as hell over-generalization. Does she knows every single Chinese person that had ever come in contact with a Tibetan in their lives and how they treated that said Tibetan...?

2) "[...] how should we deal with the Olympics because they are not being nice to the Dalai Lama, who is a good friend of mine."

What is this, high school small circle drama? "Boohoo, you don't like my good friend, so I won't go to your birthday party!!" Well... was she even invited..? I don't see the Olympic committee begging her for an appearance.

3) "Is that karma, when you are not nice that bad things happen to you?"

Man, those evil children who died in the earthquake really had it coming. Karma really got them good. [/sarcasm]

Conclusion:
The translations by most Chinese media made her out to be a heartless b*tch.

Her actual transcript in English shows for sure that she is a dumb one.

匿名 說...

LMOA Erica is supporting Sharon Stone now?? Erica just wanted some attention by arguing against the public's view. And you HK people call that "independent thinking" right?

匿名 說...

http://plastichk.blogspot.com/2008/05/blog-post_1212.html

Did the Chinese media respect other countries when disasters happened to them? Chinese newspapers suggested that the earthquake in Taiwan and Hurricane Katrina were karma right after they occurred as well.

The most important thing ALWAYS is getting your information right. What Sharon Stone says is stupid, but she's certainly not the first person to say stupid things in public. Just read the Hong Kong celebrities' reaction to what she said in the newspapers.

Gennie 說...

when I saw the news on the internet,i thought media must been twisting her words,she wouldn't say sth like that,she's Sharon Stone,she got a IQ of 154.But then I saw her on youtube,completely disappointed.I know ppl's been trying to say we all got her wrong,Karma doesn't means bad/good,but the thing is,she explained herself after the word karma,she said"when ur not nice that bad things happend to u".There's no way you can make such comment on such a natural disaster.

Gennie 說...

And I'm sure she made the whole speech just to show how forgiving Tibetians r,when chinese were bad to them,n they r still trying to get help for them(bet she didn't know dat many tibetians were died in the earthquake too.) she just didn't think the whole world would focus on her karma statement instead.But still,it's evil to have such thought,even when she said it without meaning any harm.

匿名 說...

阪本兄:

此言非矣.

Stone女士此言論的前提已經錯兼自暴其短(如果她認為漢人對藏人不善於公義不合,根本無用理會是否與誰相熟,也應該不平則鳴).

無論Karma/善業,惡業,業障,因果循環,
Fate/命運或Tragedy/悲劇的詞彙也不適合,天災就是天災......Dalai Lama失去江山就是Karma,ok?

Daniel.

匿名 說...

您好像偏幫外國人, 你曾說過不喜歡看你Blog的人不要看, 若你不喜歡中國, 也就不要在這兒生活了, 你要拿外國國藉一點也不難。不是在批評你, 只要在這兒活又諸事不順看, 何苦呢。可以的話,我也想往外走。你家有錢, 讀書又多, 人又靚, 往外闖, 對你沒難度呀, 可能在荷里活或美國政壇,你會更加出名! 加油呀 !

方潤 / Andrew Fong 說...

她既然學藏傳佛教,當然是用Karma,哪有可能用第二個字﹖(意思都唔同﹗)

傳媒自己譯錯左,就唔好賴人地用字深。

匿名 說...

Her comment was simply arrogant, ignorant, inappropriate and insensitive. No one denies her freedom of speech in relation to the earthquake, but suggesting that the thousands of innocent people including countless children died are directly responsible for the mistreatment of the tibetans was just too cruel. She said when you are not nice "bad things" happen to you. Bad things in this case refer to 68,000+ (so far) lives lost and millions are still suffering and she said it so lightly as like life has no value. If anyone has any common sense or decency wouldn't make such a disrespectful and heartless comment. Honestly, how much does she know about China and its history to comment about Tibet????

Erica, you emphasized on the last part of her interview. Do you think that was point of the interview and that was more important than what she said prior to that? If so, I'm speechless.

Jess

** 飛雪素素 ** 說...

Well, celebrities are not society's role model. I am not surprised with what she said. Brainless? maybe. Heartless? maybe. But who cares? I am not a fan nor a hater. Why bother? She is nobody.

匿名 說...

Politics & natural disaster are two different issues. There is no link between the two. When you are a public figure, think before you open your mouth. What she said was totally inappropriate. The media didn't misunderstand her. We all heard what she said. She is just stupid and heartless.

匿名 說...

According to Ms. Stone, was Katrina bad karma to the Americans for "being not nice" to the Iraqis??

How can anyone suggest that the civilians should get punish/suffer for their government's policies. It's ridiculous. She speaks her true color --> dumb.

陳大文 部落 說...

傳媒是有譯錯,而我看國內媒體,也有【故意譯錯】,香港的媒體,不單止譯錯,更有演藝啦啦隊助陣,口誅筆戈 Sharon Stone 。

但 Sharon Stone 是很無厘頭把地震、達賴喇嘛、中央政府,以地震來扯成一談的。

西方國家有見地,是事實;但一位鬼婆所說的,也未必一定就是金科玉律。

Paul 說...

the latter part of the interview tells us that we can't just quote one sentence from a whole paragraph to generalize what it says.

but this is the real world situation. You said something wrong, media will quote part of it because this is from your mouth.

some more reports from the 'western' media

Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/facesinthenews/2008/05/29/sharon-stone-china-face-markets-cx_po_0529autofacescan01.html

Guardian UK
http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2282466,00.html

Independent UK
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/sharon-stone-reaps-bad-karma-for-quake-comments-835480.html

CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/05/29/stone.karma/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

well, all these reports only quote the line - "They're not being nice to the Dalai Lama, who is a friend of mine. And then all of this earthquake and all this happened and I thought, is that karma? When you're not nice, that bad things happen to you?"

I'm not saying that the media are correct. But when you are blaming the low-levelness of HK Media, please notice that these kinds of soundbite would be treated similarly all over the world.

That's y Erica said Sharon's comment is unwise.

篤篤篤撐 說...

THE POINT OF HEr SPEECH IS

"And it was a big lesson to me, that some times you have to learn to put your head down and be of service even to people who are not nice to you."

佢既意思好明確, 係覺得自己諗karma 係唔arm, 卮有big lesson 之說。
點解中文傳媒只解讀佢之前果段, 而不看全文內容 ?

這好明顯, 這是一種斷章取義

your ex-colleague 說...

Daniel's saying is very good, I agreed.

匿名 說...

It was all a slip of the tongue.

Sharon Stone 講呢段嘢之前,好何能真係冇諗清楚會唔會被誤解或斷章取義。佢無非係想撐佢啲西藏friends,但係完全用錯context,將西藏問題同地震牽強地拉埋離講!況且講咁多嘢,有啲特別硬耳嘅字眼自然出位。被人挑起黎批評其實都係佢自己囉黎。

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, 不過佢身為公眾人物,有時心諗過句未必適合喺公開場合講出口。只怪佢冇點考慮過咩講得咩唔講得。

我諗佢宜家應該感受到咩至係「業報」!

匿名 說...

"你家有錢, 讀書又多, 人又靚, 往外闖, 對你沒難度呀, 可能在荷里活或美國政壇,你會更加出名! 加油呀 !" i agree, pls go. haha

匿名 說...

篤篤篤撐:

我回應阪本兄時作了補充,都是我不好,說話時喜好玩弄欲蓋彌彰,sorry.

Daniel.

陳大文 部落 說...

我個人認為,不須太研究 Sharon Stone 的所謂言論,我始終認為她所說的,是甚為無厘頭,將不太相關的事扯在一起。

她說的不代表金科玉律,她也不見得很有見識,現在她得到了宣傳,但是負面的。

章子怡比 Sharon Stone 聰明多了。

匿名 說...

Sis, you should really consider immigrating to another country. Put Yaya Land as your top priority, as I am sure you will be able to showcase your "writing ability" to its fullest potential over there.
Oh yeah, don't forget to put on your application "I am Chinese but I can't stand the damn China, and I am willing to use my god-sent 'writing ability' to disparage it in any way I can" as your reason for immigrating. That will surely win you some "pity points." Good luck, and rest assured, not many will miss you here! :)

gemmaward 說...

Regardless of what she actually meant by the word karma, the definition she put on this word was followed exactly, reading, "when you are not nice that bad things happen to you".

I wonder if she was on crack when saying this, stupid attention whore. As much as anger you have on the Chinese government in the event of Tibet Independence Movement, a) you shouldnt say such shit in such a senstivie period, b) there is no relation between the two, why bothered mentioning the Tibet things?Opportunist...grasping every chance to voice out stupid opinions.

Erica. No wonder you would agree with Sharon Stone partly!!! coz you are exactly the same type of opportunist attention whore grasping every chance for self-propaganda showing how superior you are and using every min. to lead us to your trip of ego. Get a life.

Yep, and please get away from the soil of China, you are a waste here. We dont need crap. Arrg, one thing, you have said you dont care about the tiny HK market, casting your focus to giant markets like China. OMFG, who do you think you are? You cant even succeed in such a tiny little market, thinking too big and overestimating your capability!

E 說...

re: 樓上的匿名
"您好像偏幫外國人, 你曾說過不喜歡看你Blog的人不要看, 若你不喜歡中國, 也就不要在這兒生活了, 你要拿外國國藉一點也不難。不是在批評你, 只要在這兒活又諸事不順看, 何苦呢。可以的話,我也想往外走。你家有錢, 讀書又多, 人又靚, 往外闖, 對你沒難度呀, 可能在荷里活或美國政壇,你會更加出名! 加油呀 !"

----------------------------------
就憑你這段既沒意思又離題的留言, 很明顯你就是憤青!
袁小姐只是將sharon stone的原文貼出來, 你就批評她"好像偏幫外國人"? 不是吧? 你都懂得說她"讀書又多", 對事件自然會客觀一點!
既然你不喜歡她的blog就別看了, 更別再貼這種趕人走的留言了! 廢事勞氣嘛!

MeowKun 說...

The whole passage itself is an enpiphany. Not really related to the firstquake but the reporter is already retarded enought at the very beginning anyway.

Blackmoor 說...

連佛教最基本的教義 - 慈悲 - 也欠奉,還瞎談什麼佛法、胡論什麼輪迴?

不過,紐約時報剛登了一編文章暗示Sharon Stone是被香港某電視台斷章取義。是耶? 非耶?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/fashion/01stone.html

Ann 說...

看了眾多回應,我較同意那位『陳大文部落』說的, Sharon Stone把不相關的三件事混為一談,看上去是誤解了事情.她可以評論西藏問題,也可講講地震對人民的禍害,不過呢,地震和中國內政,是兩碼子事呵.

匿名 說...

彌明, 如果karma被誤釋為〔報應〕,你認為應怎詮釋呢?? 我諗,你之所以吸引,可能是因為你夠薑!不過,有d野〔政治〕真係不掂為妙.

屍屍

匿名 說...

I applaud you, Erica.
I was curious and so I surfed youtube to see what Sharon had said thoroughly after reading the news reported from those papers. Frankly, I was so pissed off afher reading what those papers reported regarding Sharon's speech. However, You're right. She's unwise. Somehow, local media 惡意炒作. But what she said, in my opinion, is just like, "Chinese is still bad as they treated Dalai bad. But the still Tibetan wanted to help..." My guess is, she still belived that Chinese in bag while Tibetan is all the best.

匿名 說...

"Well you know it was very interesting because at first, you know, I am not happy about the ways the Chinese were treating the Tibetans because I don't think anyone should be unkind to anyone else. And so I have been very concerned about how to think and what to do about that because I don't like that. And I had been this, you know, concerned about, oh how should we deal with the Olympics because they are not being nice to the Dalai Lama, who is a good friend of mine.

廣東話翻譯其實會較傳神,以下譯文可供參考:
「首先其實都幾有意思0的係,你知啦,其實我唔鍾意d人對其他人唔好,中國咁樣對d西藏人我好唔開心。我都曾經好緊張自己0既諗法同埋點做,因為我實在唔鍾意佢(中國)咁做。佢咁樣對我朋友 – 達賴,我又諗過我0地應該點樣去對待奧運。

And all these earthquake and stuff happened and I thought: Is that karma, when you are not nice that bad things happen to you? And then I got a letter, from the Tibetan Foundation that they want to go and be helpful. And that made me cry. And they ask me if I would write a quote about that and I said,"I would."And it was a big lesson to me, that some times you have to learn to put your head down and be of service even to people who are not nice to you. And that's a big lesson for me..."
0係地震發生之後我諗:係咪當人對人唔好0既時候,d衰野就會發生0係你身上,呢d係咪就係因果關係呢?之後我收到一封由西藏基金寄0黎0既信,話佢地想去0個度幫手。我睇封信睇到喊0左出0黎。佢地仲請求我為就事件寫句說話,我即刻應承0左。對我0黎講,呢個係寶貴0既一課:有時縱然別人對你唔好,你仍然會低下頭0黎服務佢。呢個真係寶貴0既一課。」

** 飛雪素素 ** 說...

I agree that people should have figured out the whole story before making instant judgment. =)

(your updated on 6/1)

BTW, your new photos look lovely. 你一定減得好辛苦。 你有take vitamins 吧。 我都想減肥,但係好辛苦囉~

小必理痛 說...

我奇怪嘅係:係呢個風頭火勢,作為食開演藝呢行飯嘅佢,唔通唔知乜野叫做後果?如果佢係中國有市場,會唔會咁夠薑打爛自己個飯碗?

不過真係令佢上左寶貴嘅一課,呢一課就係講野要抽起哂一D對事件黎講會挑起別人情緒嘅詞語,以及要睇下訪問者係唔係English speaker。

阿彌陀佛。

匿名 說...

Erica,

why don't you have a blog talking about business, such as talkin' about your views about Wal Mart... GE....their governance, how to expand....and something like that....

Best Regards,

a student who is studying business

chinghoi 說...

from this incident, I wonder how many of those so called HK artists really understand Sharon's saying and the meaning of 'karma'!
not many of them have good academic background indeed!

匿名 說...

hmmmm... wonder if Sharon Stone is too insensitive or the Chinese are too sensitive..

DTLCT 說...

Erica,
I agree with you in the context that things get lost in translation and what was portrayed "here and there". AND yes, that was really "unwise" to say such things at such times. Maybe she just wanted to "confess" her wrong thoughts before, but I guess honesty isn't really the best policy in this case. If she wanted to say something about the situation, she should have been prepare or have someone do a speech for her instead of speaking out like that with scattered and/or uncollected thoughts. It makes the situation worse and does draw all the focus on the "negative" instead of her realization afterwards.

匿名 說...

Why are we arguing what karma means or think the media had gave us the wrong translation? Clearly Ms. Stone stated what karma means, "when you are not nice that bad things happen to you".

Erica, I think your personal feelings toward China play a part in this i.e. you sided with Ms. Stone and you tried to defend her.

匿名 說...

great